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A Clash of Kings

Started by Rob Farley, December 15, 2016, 11:54:26 pm

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Carl Fisher

Me too - having suffered in previous campaigns when an army/force cannot recoup or increase compared to opponents, even after the first round, and ends in a cycle of constant lost games because you are fighting with one hand tied.

This rewards winners, but does no penalise losers.

Also would make the end of game sequence shorter and less cumbersome.

Games Played (Armies): WAB + WaC (IER Roman, Early Saxons and variants, Normans), WFB (Empire), 40K (Spacemarines), Uncharted Seas (Empire, Shroud Mages), WAB English Civil War (English!), Operation Squad (British) SAGA (Normans, Jomsvikings), Mordheim, Wings of War/Glory WWI, Dreadball, Chain of Command (British), Frostgrave, Sails of Glory and many others!!

Grahame

Keep it simple - no post battle sequence. Glory points go into the 'iron throne' fund/account of each player. So at the end of the game all that you need to know is winner/loser and how many Glory points have been used or generated.
All players always start with 30 pts on the grounds that in Game of Thrones no one seems to run out of troops. Glory points could be used to influence a game by allowing them to be spent on rerolls [but  you can't reroll a reroll] eg if you don't like your leader trait roll you can 'buy' another go or you have a particular bad shooting set of dice or you really want to get that counter charge.
However I also suggest that there is a limit on the number of GP that can be spent in a game eg 5 and that they are represented by tokens that you cash in as they are used and it is declared at the start of the game how many you will be using. Those GP declared at the start of a game are lost from your account even if you don't use them all in the game.
Using GP to buy rerolls gives those who have won a game a possible reward but doesn't actively penalise those who have lost.
Grahame

Andy Mellor

I like the idea of spending glory in a game, adds that unpredictability of intrigue (possibly even being give some from another player?)

Pippa Peile

Quote from: Andy Mellor on April 02, 2017, 12:54:07 pm
I like the idea of spending glory in a game, adds that unpredictability of intrigue (possibly even being give some from another player?)


Really like the idea of giving glory points out to another player. However to make it work there would have to be an advantage to giving them.
So off top of my head, could you have it so that each player can officially declare support for another player, and that the number of other houses supporting you would make a difference to overall winner. 

For example, say I'm having a bad time and losing a lot, but Grahame is in the running for the lead, he might give me some glory points in exchange for my support, maybe a one off or maybe a qty each remaining game, in return my Lannisters declare open support for him which gives him additional points when tallying up who gets Iron Throne. Maybe how well I do will then have an impact on the final score, so if Ash is also losing, and makes a similar pact with Rob, then Rob will have an advantage to seeing me defeated by Ash.
If you really wanted to make it thematic there could be some way in which in the scenario above for example, I have an opportunity to also double cross Graham if one of his opponents wants my favour instead and is willing to pay more glory points for it.
Just a start point to get you thinking! but something like this would be really thematic, a bit different to anything else we've done and if we incorporate the idea of everyone starts on 30 points each time, not penalise more inexperienced players.

Mike Whitaker

Blog: http://troubleatthemill.blogspot.com/
Games (currently) Played: IABSM, Dux Britanniarum, Sails of Glory, Gaslands, What A Tanker!, SW: Armada
28mm: Parthians, Early Imperial Roman, British Tribes, Saxons, Norman/Christian Spanish, English Civil War Royalists; WW2 Wehrmacht, Red Devils, Home Guard; Judge Dredd Judges, Dreadball Void Sirens. GoT Night's Watch
15mm: WW2 US, British/Canadian and Heer infantry companies + support
54mm: HYW French and British
1/1000: Sails of Glory (lots)
WIP: 28mm WW2 British Commandos; 28mm War of the Roses, Peninsular British/French/Spanish; 28mm Coalition Wars SF; 15mm Fallschirmjaeger and US Paras, lots of 15mm WW2 vehicles. 1/2400 WW2 Naval

This sig is a GW- and Flames of War-free (except for the figures I own!) zone.

Gary Martin

Quote from: Pippa Peile on April 03, 2017, 11:13:39 am
Quote from: Andy Mellor on April 02, 2017, 12:54:07 pm
I like the idea of spending glory in a game, adds that unpredictability of intrigue (possibly even being give some from another player?)


Really like the idea of giving glory points out to another player. However to make it work there would have to be an advantage to giving them.
So off top of my head, could you have it so that each player can officially declare support for another player, and that the number of other houses supporting you would make a difference to overall winner. 

For example, say I'm having a bad time and losing a lot, but Grahame is in the running for the lead, he might give me some glory points in exchange for my support, maybe a one off or maybe a qty each remaining game, in return my Lannisters declare open support for him which gives him additional points when tallying up who gets Iron Throne. Maybe how well I do will then have an impact on the final score, so if Ash is also losing, and makes a similar pact with Rob, then Rob will have an advantage to seeing me defeated by Ash.
If you really wanted to make it thematic there could be some way in which in the scenario above for example, I have an opportunity to also double cross Graham if one of his opponents wants my favour instead and is willing to pay more glory points for it.
Just a start point to get you thinking! but something like this would be really thematic, a bit different to anything else we've done and if we incorporate the idea of everyone starts on 30 points each time, not penalise more inexperienced players.

Up for that. A bit of diplomacy...
Gary Martin
'I do not fear an army of lions led by sheep, I fear an army of sheep led by a lion'. Alexander the Great

Figures: 28mm Imperial Roman and Ancient Britons 700 figures ish, 28mm Napoleonic French, Brits, Portugese and Dutch-Belgian, several thousand based for General de Brigade but work for most rules, 28mm WW2 German, Russian, British and US about company of each with vehicles 1 to 1. Large army's of 15mm Napoleonic most nations based to Napoleons Battles but fairly flexible.

Grahame

I'll start the politics  - as a Wildling [and not in the running for the iron throne] I would be willing to support any who would let me settle on their lands to escape the white walkers..........
Grahame

Andrew Beer

I like the idea of spending glory in a game, adds that unpredictability of intrigue (possibly even being give some from another player?)
[/quote]

Really like the idea of giving glory points out to another player. However to make it work there would have to be an advantage to giving them.
So off top of my head, could you have it so that each player can officially declare support for another player, and that the number of other houses supporting you would make a difference to overall winner. 

For example, say I'm having a bad time and losing a lot, but Grahame is in the running for the lead, he might give me some glory points in exchange for my support, maybe a one off or maybe a qty each remaining game, in return my Lannisters declare open support for him which gives him additional points when tallying up who gets Iron Throne. Maybe how well I do will then have an impact on the final score, so if Ash is also losing, and makes a similar pact with Rob, then Rob will have an advantage to seeing me defeated by Ash.
If you really wanted to make it thematic there could be some way in which in the scenario above for example, I have an opportunity to also double cross Graham if one of his opponents wants my favour instead and is willing to pay more glory points for it.
Just a start point to get you thinking! but something like this would be really thematic, a bit different to anything else we've done and if we incorporate the idea of everyone starts on 30 points each time, not penalise more inexperienced players.
[/quote]
Up for that. A bit of diplomacy...
I slept on this an believe this is do able.
Our leader's could all start at the bottom of a table, winning games and having players support us could move our Leader up the table, each step could improve our Leader benefits (see Leader charts), Glory could be spent on game benefits: re-rolls (specifically named pre game), assignation of another factions leader, damaging units etc.
To gain another players support benefits you would need to pay the glory cost for at least on action in their next game. This action would cost double glory points, it's always more costly to get another person to do your dirty work for you.
What do you think?

Andy Mellor

Quote from: Grahame on April 03, 2017, 04:54:55 pm
I'll start the politics  - as a Wildling [and not in the running for the iron throne] I would be willing to support any who would let me settle on their lands to escape the white walkers..........
Grahame


Any wildlings found on or near my land will be flayed!!!!
However I'm willing to give you as much land as needed in Dorne?

Mike Whitaker

April 04, 2017, 04:03:32 pm #84 Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 10:43:11 pm by Mike Whitaker
Quote from: Andy Mellor on April 04, 2017, 03:17:49 pm
However I'm willing to give you as much land as needed in Dorne?


Is that yours to offer? :D
Blog: http://troubleatthemill.blogspot.com/
Games (currently) Played: IABSM, Dux Britanniarum, Sails of Glory, Gaslands, What A Tanker!, SW: Armada
28mm: Parthians, Early Imperial Roman, British Tribes, Saxons, Norman/Christian Spanish, English Civil War Royalists; WW2 Wehrmacht, Red Devils, Home Guard; Judge Dredd Judges, Dreadball Void Sirens. GoT Night's Watch
15mm: WW2 US, British/Canadian and Heer infantry companies + support
54mm: HYW French and British
1/1000: Sails of Glory (lots)
WIP: 28mm WW2 British Commandos; 28mm War of the Roses, Peninsular British/French/Spanish; 28mm Coalition Wars SF; 15mm Fallschirmjaeger and US Paras, lots of 15mm WW2 vehicles. 1/2400 WW2 Naval

This sig is a GW- and Flames of War-free (except for the figures I own!) zone.

Andrew Beer

I slept on this an believe this is do able.
Our leader's could all start at the bottom of a table, winning games and having players support us could move our Leader up the table, each step could improve our Leader benefits (see Leader charts), Glory could be spent on game benefits: re-rolls (specifically named pre game), assignation of another factions leader, damaging units etc.
To gain another players support benefits you would need to pay the glory cost for at least on action in their next game. This action would cost double glory points, it's always more costly to get another person to do your dirty work for you.
What do you think?

Gary Martin

Quote from: Grahame on April 03, 2017, 04:54:55 pm
I'll start the politics  - as a Wildling [and not in the running for the iron throne] I would be willing to support any who would let me settle on their lands to escape the white walkers..........
Grahame

The Westerlands will welcome you and provide some land in return for fealty and on condition of serving for up to 2 months a year in the Army of Westerlands if required. We treat with honesty and respect...
Gary Martin
'I do not fear an army of lions led by sheep, I fear an army of sheep led by a lion'. Alexander the Great

Figures: 28mm Imperial Roman and Ancient Britons 700 figures ish, 28mm Napoleonic French, Brits, Portugese and Dutch-Belgian, several thousand based for General de Brigade but work for most rules, 28mm WW2 German, Russian, British and US about company of each with vehicles 1 to 1. Large army's of 15mm Napoleonic most nations based to Napoleons Battles but fairly flexible.

Daniel Phillips

To avoid being left with a non viable force you could just go with a minimum recovery, ie-

Roll a D6, +1 if the unit suvived, +1 if you won the game.
1 = 25% loses recoved
2-3 = 50% loses recoved
4-5 = 75% loses recoved
6+ = All loses recoved

Also I'd base the penalty to courage tests due to losses on the size of the unit at  the start of the battle.
This works as a unit that starts at say 75% have less staying power (as it will not take many losses to push it down to 50%) but is not going to run at the first casualty.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alternatively if youd rather go with always having a full army how about something like-

All destroyed units are replaced with a newly raised unit.
All other units return to full strength.

A newly raised unit has a 1 point penalty to its courage, orders and any specials (rolls for counter charge etc).

If a newly raised unit survives the battle with at least 75% strength remaining it no longer counts as newly raised.

If a non-newly raised unit survives the battle with at least 75% strength remaining it gains a veteran ability.

If a unit with veteran abilities takes over 50% losses roll a D6 for each ability, on a 1-3 it is lost as the replacement troops dilute the quality of the unit. This roll is at -1 if the unit took over 75% losses.

Veteran abilities are-
+1 to courage
-1 to the number needed to carry out an order (each order may only be improved by 1)
-1 to the number required to perform an action such as counter charge (again each may only be improved once)
Warning: This post may contain sarcasm.
Current games & armies played- Gaslands: Idris. Full Thrust: NAC & NSL. Bolt Action: Late war German. Judge Dredd: Justice Dept & Renegade Robots. Kings of War: Dwarfs & Kingdoms of men. Mordheim: Skaven & Marianburg. Uncharted Seas: Iron Dwarfs. Necromunda: Orlock, Redemptionists & Van Saar. Direwolf Rampant : House Mallister.

Gary Martin

Rob
Will you have a roster template to ensure we give you the right info in the correct order, which may help simplify your post battle admin?
Gary
Gary Martin
'I do not fear an army of lions led by sheep, I fear an army of sheep led by a lion'. Alexander the Great

Figures: 28mm Imperial Roman and Ancient Britons 700 figures ish, 28mm Napoleonic French, Brits, Portugese and Dutch-Belgian, several thousand based for General de Brigade but work for most rules, 28mm WW2 German, Russian, British and US about company of each with vehicles 1 to 1. Large army's of 15mm Napoleonic most nations based to Napoleons Battles but fairly flexible.

Rob Farley

Ok, since none of the people who said they could do a better set of campaign rules have done so, I've had another crack at it. Stripped out most of the post-battle sequence, stripped out the narrative elements for a more standard challenge mechanic (with a map) and updated a couple of the house rules. Plus I added the army of the dead and fixed a few minor issues with the other army lists.

As always, let me know what you think and if you're still interested.
Current games (and armies) played: Gaslands, Direwolf Rampant, Frostgrave, Bolt Action & Operation Squad (Desert Rats, Communist Chinese, Russians, partisans, Americans, Finns, Italian Paras), In Her Majesty's Name, Judge Dredd Miniatures, Dreadball, Deadzone, Mobile Frame Zero, Uncharted Seas (Orcs), Necromunda (Pit Slaves, Escher), Wings of War (WWI and WWII), Mordheim, Alien vs Predator, Warpath

Current Projects: Brotherhood Without Banners, Jomsvikings, the Blaine Legion, Gaslands vehicles, WWII Danish